congress. it's a bipartisan problem. if the fiscal cliff negotiations proved anything, it's that like high schoolers, our elected leaders are worried more about popularity than actually accomplishing something. we ask only are they conservative enough? are they liberal enough? well, that's the way teenagers evaluate one another? is it she praut enough? is he cool enough? who cares if she's failing math or he's dealing drugs after school? voters need only be reminded that kids today will be running the country tomorrow. let's teach them all a valuable lesson by finally hold our representatives to higher standards. because the message to kids and congress is the same, you aren't special just for existing. that does it for "the cycle." martin, krystal has a message. >> very quickly want to wish my mother and sister heidi a happy birthday. >> that's lovely. many, many warmest congratulations to them. thank you for sharing that. and good afternoon.

it's tuesday, january the 8th, and we are two years removed from the tragedy in tucson. two years and 11 more mass shootings in america. >> breaking news from gabrielle giffords. two years ago today she was shot. >> we can't tolerate this anymore. >> the second amendment culture shob totally captured by extremists. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> how was newtown? >> tough. >> you know, that was the worst day of my presidency. >> my 9-year-old daughter was murdered in the tucson shooting. >> i do not support their gun control agenda for two reasons. number one, it's unconstitutional. >> nobody is trying to take away your gun. >> a lot of people, joshua, are worried that the federal government is going to come after our guns? >> 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. >> i personally don't think

there's any need for that kind of weaponry. >> enough is enough. >> enough is enough. >> when it can happen to children in a classroom, it's time to say -- >> enough. enough. one word from former congresswoman gabrielle giffords today as she and her husband launch a campaign to combat gun violence in this country. the move comes as bells tolled in tucson marking the second anniversary of a shooting that killed six people and left the congresswoman critically wounded. it comes as victims and their families relive more gut-wrenching testimony at the preliminary hearing for the gunman charged in the colorado movie theater massacre. and it comes after giffords and her husband, mark kelly, traveled to newtown, connecticut, to meet with families of the victims of last month's elementary school

massacre in which 20 children and 6 teachers were shot and killed. >> first couple that we spoke to, dad took out his cell phone and showed us a picture of his daughter, and i just about lost it. >> enough. >> in a usa today op-ed, they write, in response to a horrific series of shootings that has se sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a tucson parking lot, congress has done something quite extraordinary, nothing at all. part of their effort will be aimed at raising enough money to challenge the well-funded gun lobby. new york mayor michael bloomberg said on "morning joe" that most americans want the reforms that the nra and its affiliates push so hard against. >> all they have to do is just

accept reasonable restrictions. nobody is trying to take away your gun. nobody is trying to take away your right to go hunting or target shooting or have protection in your home. simply we're trying to have some reasonable things so people aren't killed. >> today the mayor's anti-illegal guns group is going on air with an ad that invokes sandy hook and features the mother of the youngest victim of that tucson shooting. >> 20 heart-broken families lost a child in the sandy hook school shooting. i know how much it hurts. my 9-year-old daughter was murdered in the tucson shooting. i have one question for our political leaders. when will you find the courage to stand up to the gun lobby? whose child has to die next? >> indeed. the same question could be asked by a mother and father of one of the latest shooting victims in our daily tally of gun casualties, including a 15-year-old girl shot and killed early today in milwaukee. in maryland last night a gunman

left one dead and one critically wounded before taking his own life. in ft. myers, florida, a christian school was closed today following a deadly shooting in the school's parking lot on monday. then ra has issued a customary kurt statement saying they'll send a representative to meet with vice president biden on thursday as part of his task force. meanwhile, as the president calls for a national day of service to honor the reverend martin luther king jr. on january the 19th, gun rights activists have announced that they will mark gun appreciation day two days before the president's inauguration. urging gun owners to turn out en masse at gun vendors with signs reading, hands off my guns. their latest contribution to curbing gun violence in america. let's get right to our panel. here in new york is msnbc contributor joy reid, who is also the managing editor of thegrio.com and in washington

larry ward of gun appreciation day. mr. ward, can i begin with you? >> of course. >> you've said that the president wants to gut the second amendment. what specifically has this president done during his first four years in office to undermine your gun rights? what has he done? >> well, absolutely nothing. >> thank you. >> and the truth is he had to run for re-election, but what he said was -- and i believe joe biden guaranteed that they would pass sweeping gun control legislation by the end of the month. >> but, in fact, as you know, he promised when campaigning in 2008 to reinstate the 1994 ban on assault weapons. he never did so. in fact, in 2010 he signed laws allowing people to carry guns in national parks. he was silent when the supreme court effectively extended gun rights by striking down local bans on handguns. and he's not said a word even as some states have pushed to allow people to carry concealed

weapons in bars, schools, and even churches. this president, just so we have it from you on the record, has done absolutely nothing to curtail your gun rights. >> at this point i do not believe he's done much. but i tell you, he certainly intends to. >> well, that's interesting because he's done nothing in his first term. joy, michael bloomberg, mayor michael bloomberg, said that law enforcement agree on proper sensible regulations in terms of gun control. mayors around the country say the same thing. but congress has done nothing. even when one of their own, gabrielle giffords, was shot in the head. but do you think that simple word, enough, from her today does herald some kind of promise of change? juneau what? i'm heartened by the fact that people who are on the side of reasonable gun control are actually going out and being proactive, running ads, and making an assault on a messaging level against the nra and this stranglehold they have had on our politics. the guest you were just talking

with, let's put aside the offensive idea of having a gun appreciation day that intertwines with the date when we honor martin luther king jr. who was killed by a gun sent through the mail after which we had the 1968 gun control act that restricted the ability to mail guns which was a reasonable response to that tragedy. but what they're now saying is the reasonable response to something like sandy hook is to do nothing. i'm glad to see people on the other side say enough of that. >> mr. ward, we know mr. lapierre of the nra believes the answer is for more guns, guns in school, guns in church, guns in bars, guns in bathrooms, guns all over. but what explanation is there, sir, other than widespread access to guns that means america has an exponential rate of firearm homicides? >> well, you know, you got to look at where the homicides are taking place. they're taking place in cities that have the highest rate of

gun control. >> tucson, arizona, has the highest rate of gun control? >> that's an incident. that's not the highest rate -- >> six people were murdered, sir. >> you know what? martin, what i want you to do is i want you to wish real hard on a star that you could legislate all bad things away and i hope your wish comes true. >> that's not what i was asking you. >> you can't legislate all bad things away. >> i'm not suggesting that, sir. >> there is a reality that there are bad people that have guns and that will do harm. >> yes. but let me, sir, just put this to you. the american murder rate is 15 times that of other wealthy nations. in 2008 japan had 11 people killed with guns. the united states had 12,000. in 2012 the entire united kingdom population of 64 million had 35 gun deaths. the city of chicago alone had 500. how can mr. lapierre be right when he says the only answer to the exponential rate of firearm

homicides in this country is more firearms? >> look at the rate of gun homicides in states like texas where gun control is not a factor and people can carry concealed weapons. the rate is very low. you look at cities -- you made my point. >> i don't think i have, sir. we think of aurora, colorado, we think of the oregon shopping mall shooting. but you were going to -- >> i was -- >> one minute, mr. ward. >> fortunately, we live in a world where there is such a thing as math and statistics and the statistics have shown quite clearly, the highest rate of gun deaths in the country would be louisiana. louisiana also happens to have the least gun regulations. illinois, where chicago sits and people love to cite chicago, chicago is a city where they have a myriad of problems, poverty, gangs, take chicago out of the picture. even actually with chicago in the statistics, illinois is in the middle. illinois is actually middling when it comes to gun deaths. you are safer in new york from

gun homicide than you are in vermont statistically out of 100,000 gun deaths because states with stringent gun laws have lower rates of homicide. the part of this country with the highest rate of gun deaths is the south which also happens to have the most guns. the statistics are very clear. they've been done by many organizations, harvard, duke, economists. there's a direct statistical correlation between the presence of more guns and more gun crime, gun death, murder, period. >> your response to the facts? >> you call them facts -- >> sorry, sir. mr. ward, mr. ward, as you well know, we all have different opinions on this broadcast and we ventilate them but we don't have alternative views of the facts. joy reid has just offered you statistical evidence from reputable universities, including one of her own, harvard, and you are suggesting what? that these statistics are bogus in some way? >> what i'm suggesting is what she just stated was that illinois's right in the middle

but chicago is at the top. >> right. there's gang violence in chicago which is a factor in gun crime but why is it that louisiana, they almost have no gun laws, why does louisiana have the highest rate of gun homicide, gun death, suicide by gun? >> new orleans has plenty of gun control laws. >> state of louisiana has the least gun regulations in the country. why do they have the highest rate of gun deaths? you said having gun laws lead to gun deaths. the opposite is true. >> just look at what happened in newtown. quite frankly, i have been as touched and as absolutely devastated to what happened in newtown as everybody -- >> sir, nobody is disputing that all of us have been devastated by what happened. nobody is disputing that. but joy was just asking you a specific question about louisiana and you don't appear to have a reasonable response to the statistics. >> i'm not sitting here with the

statistics. the truth is the newtown shooting is a gun-free school zone. the aurora shooting was a gun-free zone -- >> i would love to ask a question. i take liberties, it is your show, martin. how would the shooter in newtown have killed all those children without a semiautomatic rifle. how could he have committed that crime otherwise? >> he could have committed it with a handgun. he could have committed it with a knife. he have committed it like happened in china. he could have committed it -- >> he could have killed 26 people -- >> sorry, sir, on the very day that happened as you know in china a madman went into a school with a knife and he may have inflicted injuries but none of them were fatal. so that's nonsensical and also just a little reference to aurora, colorado. we heard today about a 911 tape which lasted 27 seconds. do you know how many bullets were fired by the individual shooter during those 27 seconds, sir? >> i did not see the story. >> 33 bullets from a

semiautomatic weapon in 27 seconds. i think that explains why the individual in newtown was able to kill so many people. mr. ward -- >> if the principal who went on to bravely confront the shooter did so with a weapon, perhaps, you know, she might have saved a lot of lives. >> sir, that woman is deceased. larry ward, joy reid, thank you so much. next, aig says thanks for the nearly $200 billion loan, and as a mark of their gratitude, they're threatening to sue the united states government. nice. stay with us.

as children we're taught to say please and thank you, but maybe someone over at aig only got half that lesson because to our astonishment, this morning in "the new york times" the multinational insurance giant, which accepted a bailout of $182 billion, is now considering a lawsuit against the very government and the very taxpayers who saved its very existence. the mind reels at such an epic act of ingratitude. it goes beyond the lack of mirepoix lightnemere politeness. in the words of one top lawmaker, it would be like suing the paramedic who gave you cpr because he forgot to provide you with a pillow. we're joined by representative elijah cummings, democrat of maryland and ranking member of the house oversight committee. good afternoon, sir. you were the one that made that

analogy between aig and the paramedic. i point out that the american people gave a lifeline to this firm and this is what the taxpayer gets in return, a lawsuit? >> basically what we got, martin, was a slap in the face, too. the fact is that aig was drowning. they came to the united states government for a loan to save them. as you said, we gave them $182 billion, and basically they had a choice, either they accept the loan of $182 billion or they go in to bankruptcy and basically what would have happened is the very shareholders who will be deciding tomorrow to sue the united states government would have shares of stock that would be worthless. it's just amazing to me that they would do this. but, again, this has been their attitude all along. don't forget, martin, this is the same group that gave their employees bonuses, the same one

that is caused all the problems. >> absolutely, why not? there are now some aig shareholders who are bringing a $25 billion suit against the government because they claim the terms of the bailout were too onerous. >> yeah. >> i guess they'd have preferred bankruptcy instead of the bailout? >> well, the fact is that -- you know, it's funny. they asked for the loan. they were very grateful for the loan. we helped them get through this very difficult crisis, even when they kind of, you know, just slapped us in the face by going on these junkets and having a good time while my constituents were suffering and losing almost everything they had and then they turn around and do this. it is an insult to every single taxpayer in america. >> "the atlantic" ran a big expose on banks and the financial industry in general, and the author of that article appeared recently on "morning joe," and here is what he had to say about curbing wall street greed. take a listen, sir. >> bankers have to go to prison

when they are reckless -- >> wow. >> we have not had a single major banker go to prison in the wake of the financial crisis and i think there were substantial wrong doings. >> that's the truth, isn't it, sir? the financial crisis have devastated the lives of millions of people in this country. why hasn't one of them been held criminally responsible? >> that's a good question, and we've asked that question many times in the oversight and government reform committee and we still haven't gotten a decent answer. i can tell you, martin, when i hear about some of the greed and the outright wrongdoing that took place on wall street, it is very painful because then i look at people in my neighborhood, if somebody stole a bike, a $300 bike, they go to jail. >> of course. now, you're the ranking member of the house oversight committee, of course. it's chairman, daryl isa, is famous for his witch hunts against the white house. how come you guys don't come up and open an investigation into this foreclosure settlement we've been hearing about over

the last two days? >> well, one of the things we did try to do, and i must give chairman issa credit, he and i wrote a letter friday asking them not to go forward with this settlement. this is one of the things we did jointly. asked them not to go forward with it until we had an opportunity as a congress and as a committee to review the terms of that agreement, and they basically said, no, we're going on and we're going to do it no matter what, and that's been their attitude all along unfortunately. this deal that they came up with, martin, is one which i think is probably going to be unfair to a lot of people who lost their homes. keep in mind, we've got a settlement that totals about $10 billion, and basically it will never compensate a lot of these folks who lost their homes illegally through these banks. and so the banks easily get off. they pay $10 billion, which is a

drop in the bucket for them h while these homeowners are left to gather -- to at most maybe $125,000. most of them will average somewhere around $2,000. >> and it will do absolutely nothing to prevent the kind of fraudulent practices that have marked the recent activities of so many of these banks. >> unfortunately. >> thanks to representative elijah cummings. thank you, sir. >> good to be with you, martin. >> thank you. coming up, the return of late night comedy. our "top lines" are just ahead. >> here is the thing, if you guys can't vote for this, then we're [ bleep ] for the next two years. i'm not saying you're responsible for all the problems facing our country but you sure are making them a lot harder to fix. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ]

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theory that would help explain donald trump. it's the nation's top humorists that may have cracked the puzzle. >> the color of his hair -- >> yeah. >> -- and the color of an orange orangutan is the only two things in nature of the same color. >> of course, we need much more data, research, maybe even a clinical trial to determine if mr. trump really is the son of a big, fat, hairy ape, but you have to admit it would help explain some things about the man. and that's why we're hoping that he'll come forward to answer this conundrum. if not for the good of science, then at least to help one of his favorite charities. >> i'm willing to offer $5 million to donald trump if he will come -- that he can donate to a charity of his choice, hair club for men, the institute for inkcorrigible douche-baggery.

>> the ball is now firmly in your court. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪

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from serious conversation about guns to silly season across the road. here are today's "top lines." no, you stay classy. >> it's 2013, suck it, mayans. >> the second amendment isn't there for duck hunting. >> i don't need an assault weapon to shoot a duck. >> it's there to protect us from tyrannical government. >> barack obama is getting inaugurated again. shows you the power of the nra. >> more guns means less crime. >> number of people in america killed by firearms is extraordinary. i don't think we're a blood thirsty culture. >> 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. >> gabby and i are both gun owners but we have to do something. >> the republic will rise again when you attempt to take our guns. >> enough. >> the republicans are clearly

in a strong position. >> is president obama now a crazed identi ed ideologue? >> but the president may have a trick up his sleeve. >> it was there in his slogan, change. >> he looks asian. >> asian people are not liberal by nature. they're usually more industrious and hard working. >> he was merely painting an entire race with one brush. >> staying classy, san diego. you got that reference? >> what is the name of this network again? >> i orred two urchins to write thank you notes. >> this place is run by a bunch of children. >> i can never find my car either. >> that's the story of the kangaroo in the college. >> two quarterbacks. you get all the good looking women. >> i'm surprised you haven't brought miss alabama to talk about like benghazi. >> i have got nothing here. you got my kooiser blowing in the wind. >> i love the fact the men commentators are alive and well.

>> look like a fool here. >> what would seoe jesus or any other human being that isn't a [ bleep ] hole do? and you blew it. >> the republicans party has the same problem as the beach boys, their fans are dying. >> ken vogel is the chief investigative reporter for politico and dana milbank is a political columnist for "the washington post." good afternoon to both of you. dana, i want to begin with the chuck hagel nomination. you have come out with a pretty stark defense. you write of the disparaging claments republicans are making against him and quoting you, most of that is false and the rest is irrelevant. now, what did you mean by this because wee keep being told by conservative that is mr. hagel is a homophobic, anti-semitic lover of hamas. >> the interesting thing is when senator hagel was a republican senator, various of his colleagues, republican senators, had a very high view of his foreign policy credentials, including senate republican

leader mitch mcconnell. now that he's actually been tapped by this democraticed a m, they have some problems and they have to check into his record. even a guy that was one of them before, once he is blessed by president obama is persona nongrata among the congressional republicans. they're going to have a tough time i think making the case against chuck hagel who was twice wounded in vietnam as an enlisted man going up against the chicken hawks of the united states senate, and he's not going to take a lot of grief from them. he's a guy who has bled for his country and actually believes that war should be a last resort. it's a novel sentiment perhaps in the senate these days, but i think it will prevail. >> it certainly is. as the president said, war is not an abstraction to this man. ken, you recently reported that several anti-obama groups are going to try to make these nomination battles as permanent as debt ceiling battles.

who is it that's behind this though, ken? >> well, in this particular case, the hagel nomination, as well as to an extent the susan rice nomination, which didn't even get off the ground, there are a group of these neoconservative organizations that are all affiliated to some extent with bill kristol, the weekly standard editor, that have spent a fair amount of money but more to the point have really leveraged the media and their own media platforms to make these into real controversies and to make them into real fights. a lot of people are saying, well, the fact that president obama did, in fact, nominate chuck hagel as opposed to susan rice who never got nominated, shows that these neocons are behind it. i don't think that's right. i think the neoconservatives are fighting a turf war within the republican party to make sure that the dominant foreign policy within the republican party remains a very hawkish one, and i do think we'll see some sort of squabbles on the floor of the senate or in the confirmation

hearings for senator hagel to that effect. >> dana, is this hagel fight really about his views on israel, for example, and iran? or is it really, truthfully, a proxy fight for something else? >> well, look, i mean, there may be people in the senate who have legitimate disagreements with him on israel. he is pro-israel. has he been 100% pro-israel by the aipac standard? no, he hasn't been. but you know who hasn't been? that's president obama. he's the one that makes the middle east policy. the defense secretary is the one who is overseeing the fighting of wars. so pretty much by definition this shouldn't be about foreign policy and diplomacy but about war fighting. >> right. >> it does raise the question of whether it has something to do with president obama rather than chuck hagel. >> maybe just a bit. dana, i want to change the topic slightly because there is a

slight chance, as you may know, that the american flag will revert to 49 stars. take a listen to this. >> lots of reasons we believe texas should leave the union, but basically it boils down to political freedom that we have lost, cultural freedom we have lost, and certainly the economy. >> now, dana, this is what the american flag would look like as it did briefly in the 1950s. i was wondering, do you have any advice for this fledgling country of texas and its forthcoming president rick perry? >> the forthcoming incumbent president rick perry who has no interest in this particular sa session movement even though he once flirted with it. well, it could be lonely for texas. you don't know whether they're going to form a union with mexico or venezuela perhaps. they might want to bring some of the south with them. but the more of these solid

republican south that leaves the union, the wealthier the rest of the union will be and perhaps we'll be able to have some more unified government in washington. >> right. ken, a final question. i understand via your own reporting that speaker john boehner was spotted relaxing near tiki torches with a drink and a smoke. tell us more. >> yeah. we got a tip from a geps who was staying at this resort in the florida keys, a very tony resort. we saw john boehner down there with a young couple just kind of hanging out, and apparently glad handi handing. a lot of well wishers came up to him and he was very friendly. the young couple, it turns out it was one of his political staffers and the political staffer's girlfriend. since then we have learned that he was spotted this morning at the built more where he was apparently staying down there. coming off a rather rough week. there are worse places for him to be than down in south florida soaking up some rays and some

college football. >> no doubt. refining his opposition to the fiscal cliff in florida. ken vogel and dana milbank, thank you both, gentlemen. next, state of denial. why the gop can't get around the fact that their policies alienate female voters. stay with us. [ female announcer ] think you need to go to a department store counter for a professional cleansing device? join the counter revolution and switch to olay pro-x. get cleansing results as effective as a $200 system. guaranteed or your money back. olay pro-x. to treat your anti-aging concerns? join the counter revolution and switch to olay pro-x. achieve anti-aging results so you look up to 12 years younger. see results in 28 days. guaranteed or your money back. olay pro-x.

your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. 2012 was not the worst year for laws regulating women's reproductive rights. it was the second worst. 43 laws meant to restrict a woman's right to choose were passed in 19 states. that compares with 92 for the year 2011. nevertheless, as the head of planned parenthood pointed out today, the numbers are consistent with a pattern of social conservatives winning their battles less at the federal level and more on the state level. >> even what we've seen in the last couple years as we've had

so many attacks in state legislatures and politicians going after women's rights, we've seen a kind of resurgence of young women and young men who are saying, we're definitely not going to go backwards in this country. >> joining us now is john than capehart, who is a writer for "the washington post," and maria teresa kumar. both are msnbc contributors. welcome. maria, we're exactly two weeks away from the 40th anniversary of roe v. wade, the law that helped secure a woman's right to choose on a federal level, yet what goes through your mind when you see states year after year finding convenient legal loopholes to, of course, restrict access? >> well, let's also attach it to the states that are passing these laws are heavily republican and conservative. my big guess is do they ever want to win the white house or the senate? when you look at the state such as virginia, virginia has been highly conservative, has passed some of the most extreme laws when it comes to barring women, including an ultrasound in order

to identify whether or not you want an abortion. even virginia women voted 54% in favor of barack obama. it's increasingly a diverse state, a purple state. i kind of scratch my head. how do they get their math if all they want to do is do a war on women? how do they want to expand that map if 54% of all voters are women? >> yet, jonathan, there are now four states with only one abortion clinic, mississippi, arkansas, and north and south dakota. this is often because republicans use onerous regulations, regulations, of course, that they deride in every other aspect of governance, but which they apply to prevent countless facilities from qualifying for usage. >> so, for instance, the virginia law that maria teresa pointed out, among the regulations that abortion clinics would have to abide by, abortion clinics would have to be regulated along the lines of a hospital -- a hospital operating room so they would have to have the ventilation system for a sterile environment

even though one is not needed to perform an abortion. they would have to have regulated widths for hallways and doors for abortion clinics. and this is another one that is rather interesting, there would be a minimum number of parking spaces required for abortion clinics. so these are all sort of the nitpicky ways that conservatives have used, you know, local laws, state laws, to restrict a woman's right to access to preventative care. >> and, you know, maria teresa, to jonathan's point, many of these clinics that so upset social conservatives offer, as you know, a wide variety of health service. for instance, screenings for various kinds of cancer. what is it about helping often poor single women that so upsets conservatives? >> well, i think you hit the nail on the head, martin. the conservative folks going after a woman's right to choose, and it's the extreme right, they are basically talking both sides

of their mouth. at the same time they don't want preventative care. they don't want family planning. they don't want contraception. they don't want -- their answer to ensure you don't have -- you have safe sex is no sex for a lot of folks. that's not the answer. i think that because they're talking out of both sides ever their mouth, unfortunately, they are targeting poor women, and for example in the state of texas where they have shut down planned parenthood and not because of abortions that were performed, but because of a lot of these nitpicking details that jonathan mentioned, close to 23,000 unwanted pregnancies are going to occur in texas. what does that happen? that puts it on the government dole because these individuals also don't have the finances to ensure that the child gets the care that they need. so when they're talking -- when the republicans are saying they want a war on women, it's actually a war on family because they're not allowing women and they're not respecting the right to choose and make those -- making those choices be personal between a woman and her doctor. >> jonathan, we heard cecile

richards just now saying the demographics of this country have changed in relation to these matters. that still doesn't appear to have sunk in to the republican party or, indeed, to other conservatives around the country who wish to push forward with this kind of antagonistic approach to women. >> well, i mean, i think it gets to, you know, cosmically speaking the whole gerrymandering issue. you have people in elected positions coming from districts that don't, you know, in the aggregate reflect the state reflect the communities that, you know, where they come from. and i'm saying broadly speaking. so you could have a situation, as we had in the last, say, presidential election, where the country is -- you know, there are women, people of color, young people who are coming out hand making their voices heard, yet the people who are sent to washington to represent them in the congress don't reflect their

views. we're seeing that also happening at the state and local level. >> jonathan capehart, sorry maria teresa, you can finish with a final word. >> when you look at a state like virginia where the governor is going to have to go out to that broader group where they're no longer just state legislators they're gerrymandering, he's going to pivot so the center and that's going to be curious. >> curious is one word. jonathan capehart, maria teresa kumar, thank you, both. next, we go to the white house. first, sue herrera. >> good afternoon, martin. here is a look at how wall street stands going into tomorrow's session. the dow lost ground finishing down 55. the s&p lost 4.75 and the nasdaq finished down 7 points. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. we're back after a quick break.

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the nra is due to attend white house meetings on gun violence on thursday. but it's a little unclear who is going to listen to whom. >> the nra says it's here to hear what the white house has to say, if you guys are here to listen to them and they're -- >> the process is designed to get input. the president will decide what he would like to pursue, what he believes is the right course of action in addition to what he has already called on congress to do. >> and the gentleman who asked jay carney that question joins us now, peter alexander live from the white house. pete, the nra issued a very terse statement and i'm quoting their statement, we got an invite late friday. we are sending a representative to hear what they have to say. could this be the most reluctant

and grudging meeting since the president had lunch with mitt romney recently? >> reporter: well, you heard jay carney say that the white house is there to get input from all parties and the nra says it's here to hear what the white house has to say. that could obviously be a pretty short conversation. clearly in that conversation i had with jay carney, i asked him specifically what their position was given the fact that they have heard some of the recommendations from the nra, the conversation wayne lapierre had with david gregory on "met the press" and that odd news conference they had where they said more guns would be the solution, a good guy with a gun was the best antidote to a bad guy with a gun. the president was pretty skeptical of that. this certainly is picking up over the next search days. the vice president joe biden in a series of meetings with members of the entertainment industry, the video game industry, as well as gun rights groups, including the nra. >> right. and gun advocates have called

for gun appreciation day on january the 19th. that is two days before the inauguration and a day that the president himself has marked as a day of service to the nation. have we had any response to the white house about this gun appreciation day? >> reporter: yeah, we reached out to the white house and at this point they really have no comment on that idea of a gun appreciation day. obviously, it would fly in the face of what the white house is hoping to accomplish nationally that day with this national day of service to honor the life and legacy as the white house put it of the late dr. martin luther king junior. clearly a gun appreciation that day would obviously seem pretty ill-fit. >> worth reminding ourselves that the great man obviously was killed by a bullet. nbc's peter alexander, thank you, sir. and we'll be right back. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪

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it's thyme now to "clear the air" and today is not only the second anniversary of that shooting in tucson, arizona, when congresswoman gabby giffords was shot in the head and six others were killed, it's also now 25 days since a 20-year-old lunatic armed with military-style weapons entered an elementary school in connecticut and murdered 20 children and 6 staff members. vice president joe biden, as you know, is heading up a task force and we're told that the white house hopes to present substantive proposals within the next few weeks. but already there's a strong temptation to move on from the horror of december the 14th. >> well, first, we need to concentrate on joe biden's group and what are they going to recommend, and after they do that, we'll decide what, if anything, is appropriate to do in this area. but the biggest problem we have

at the moment is spending and debt. that's going to dominate the congress between now and the end of march. >> nobody is suggesting that this nation's economic predicament is not critically important, but the mass murder of innocent children surely demands that we focus on strategies that will at the very least reduce the chances of that ever happening again. and even as we do so, the statistics continue to pile up. yesterday four women were bound and shot in tulsa, oklahoma. also yesterday, 27-year-old chris smith was dropping his children off at school in ft. myers, florida, when he was shot and killed in the parking lot. and in aurora, colorado, the same town where james holmes is alleged to have set off tear gas grenades and then murdered 12 people and injured 58 others in a movie theater, police were called to a townhouse after gunshots were heard. after a